Gillard is PM

[erratus]

The question is, what will she be like on our standards? Interestingly, some of the most trenchant Israel bashers in Parliament backed Rudd, and a whole lot of Israel supporters backed Gillard, not least the three people - Feeney, Shorten and Farrell - who started all of this.

[balshan]

Hopefully, it means she is pro Israel, but once again, like Obama, only time will tell.  I find it amusing the way the focus has been on the fact that she is a woman.  Not only a woman but she is red headed.  Shouldn't the focus be on what her policies will be and how far she agreed with what Kevin Rudd implemented.  She was in charge of the school's program. I a woman and believe that women can be leaders but not as tokens etc.  Women leaders still need to have good, strong policies to be in the position.  We need to vote on what the people in our electorates believe and promote and on whether they were good at sports etc.

[joyful]

Good comment and history I feel is offered on JG by Andrew Bolt October 2007 and by Jenny Stokes on www.saltshakers.org.au under "What affiliations do our candidates have? -22nd November 2007. They would suggest if we want to go down they road of Fabian Socialism she is not a good choice as PM. However, my one consolation is that she seemed (publicly at least) to not jump on the bandwagon of condemning Israel during the Gaza War in 2009 and personally when we have just recently seemed Rudd expel an Israeli Diplomat over the Dubai incident and then deliver a knee jerk public speech denouncing Israel over the flotilla  I am not surprised to see that he is gone. I just never expected it to be so soon!!!! Some people may feel this is drawing a long bow but people have written books on this stuff  e.g William Koenig "An Eye for An Eye" - the consequences of dividing the Land of Israel  and I think it gets down to a matter of do we really believe "I will Bless those who Bless you etc Genesis 12:3 or not!!! I would suggest if we don't it is all over for not just Israel but the world.   

[balshan]

My only comment is that I find it hard to discern whether someone who was in the Fabian society in University still holds those beliefs.  I know that my beliefs have changed radically since I was young.  Also there were prominent members of the liberals who were part of the Fabian society. The major change for me was meeting Jesus.

 Of course all those who come against Israel will be judged but it also states that the whole world will be against Israel.  We can only look closely at how our politicans respond to question of Israel and vote accordingly.  It doesn't hurt to let them know that if they are anti Israel they will not get our vote.

[joyful]

Re JG's affiliation with the Fabian Society - her contact and leanings are far more recent than university days as can be seen at : Julia Gillard – speaking to the NSW Fabians Forum on 22 March 2006.
Her speech is at http://www.fabian.org.au/1047.asp

Another "bottom line" concern for me though is her membership of "Emily's List" which quite publicly endorses abortion, human (read homosexual) rights etc - see “How to Vote in this Election’ by Bill Muehlenberg
At http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2007/11/10/how-to-vote-in-this-election/ for an excellent outline of this organisation and Julia's leanings.

I do agree though that any leader's support of Israel would be one postive. at least. 

[balshan]

The sites you recommended were interesting but under our system of voting we have a problem.  The leader of the party is very influential but is not the person we vote for, we vote for the person in our electorate.  We need to study the candidates in our electorate and vote for a person who represents our point of view.  I am not impressed with the liberal member in my electorate, I find that he does not like to answer difficult questions and tells you to ring his office and that they will reply within 24 hours.  In fact, they never reply.  I will never vote labour due to the fact that their approach on a number of levels is appalling which leaves minor parties and independents who it is not always easy to find out much about.  I think sometimes the donkey vote is not an ignorant vote but a valid vote because no suitable candidates are in an electorate. and not voting is not an option.

Voting requires much research and prayer before polling day.

[joyful]

Can appreciate your dilemma but I venture to say that any vote which would minimise Labour's chances (because of their anti God foundations and policies) would have to be desirable. Victoria to me with it's vilification laws, late term abortion etc etc is what we can expect Federally if Labour gets back in. Remember the logo for the Fabian Socialist's was once the Wolf in Sheep's clothing but because that was so obvious they changed it to the Tortise = slow but steady and then strike.

Mind you in the big picture anti God rule (not that the Liberals are perfect either) could bring us all to our knees which is not a bad place to be anyway. 

[balshan]

However, it makes it hard to vote for a person no matter what party if they do not hold your views.  Our member is now has a portfolio which means he is climbing the ranks.  In Victoria the Bill of Rights which has gone through is also a major problem and the Liberal Party did not even return my phone calls on this matter.  I rang local members and others from both Federal and State level.  I also protested to the Labor members total waste of time.  I think we should look at another system.  I think it is the Swiss system where all major decisions need to go to a referendum - major spending projects or major changes.  Also, we should make politicians responsible for their decisions eg roof insulation blunders could mean that their is legal actions that the politician would have to face, much the same as company directors who make major blunders can face legal action.  Facing the voters is not enough.

[joyful]

Given that the system won't be changing in a hurry I think we all have to step up to the mark somehow/someway and be more involved in how our country is managed. After all this is what Emily's List has done (of which our Julia is a founding member) and as you know it's become a powerful influence in bringing about anti God legislation so why aren't we doing the opposite. Maybe at one ACSI meeting we need to not only talk about effective hasbara but also how we can effectively lobby our local members for righteous laws. The Australian Christian Lobby,The National Alliance of Christian Leaders and even Fred Nile provide Godly insights on current issues/legislation - to name a few.  Our ANZAC forefathers died for our freedom and our sovereignty so I believe we must pick up the baton for our children's sake.

[Rubens]

What an excellent debate!

Isn't politics a pain. I was once naive enough to assume that all Israel supporters are of the right, and got quite an education in that.

While people like Gillard are unstable on our moral issues, she has been particularly stout in defence of Israel and this is certainly a refreshing reality. I am of the opinion that if people are schooled and entrenched in hard-left or socialist background, their default position on Israel is a negative one. That Gillard's is not indicates she may swing according to the desires of the people.

Having said that I would rather a strong economy (and good mining) any time!

The Australian Christian Lobby,The National Alliance of Christian Leaders and even Fred Nile provide Godly insights on current issues/legislation - to name a few.  Our ANZAC forefathers died for our freedom and our sovereignty so I believe we must pick up the baton for our children's sake.

Quite right. Don't forget Family Voice Australia http://www.fava.org.au/ . They are genuinely influencial and Rev Mark Durie, a good friend of ACSI and published author, is on their board.

[joyful]

Dear Rubens - yes politics is a pain isn't it as both sides seem to make a game of it and oppose each other for the sake of opposing on many occasions. However, the current "contest" for want of a better word really has me concerned and I've  taken the liberty of enclosing a letter I have written to the Jewish News which hasn't seen the light of day yet because maybe it's a bit controversial for them when Julia is  seemingly so supportive of Israel. I never thought I would see the day when I bypassed a leader who was so supportive of Israel either but here's the reasons why.

LIFE OR DEATH
In all the euphoria about the current PM’s pro Israel statements over the last few years (even though she did vote to expel an Israeli diplomat over the Dubai affair –which I didn’t agree with) could I please remind your readers that as a founding member of Emily’s List she stands for many issues that in my opinion are not as praiseworthy or deserving of our vote.  For those that are unaware Emily’s List (amongst many things) is a pro choice (read pro abortion) parliamentary group of Labour women that have also been instrumental in permitting embryo-experimentation and cloning (the Lockhart Bills), the controversial RU-486 Abortion pill, (taking authority away from Health Minister at the time – Tony Abbott), the overturning of Australia’s 13 year ban on Foreign Aid for Abortion and the ongoing attempted silencing of pregnancy support groups by punitive measures.
As these anti life activities are so contrary to what the Scriptures and what scientific research tells us is conducive to good mental health for all concerned, not forgetting the issue of the rights of the unborn, I cannot see that a vote for Julia is healthy for individuals or our nation.  With Tony Abbott’s proven track record of supporting the sanctity of life (and marriage and family I might add) it seems to me we are being given an opportunity in this forthcoming election to choose Life or Death. Now that sounds familiar!!!
Indeed, if we are not going to resist the merciless murder of our unborn in the womb, both here and in Israel and around the world then I say we have no business lamenting the holocaust, but please let it be known that I do lament the holocaust and I couldn’t be more pro Israel or pro Zionist if I tried. I beg you Australia to choose life as that is the issue at stake here and please don’t tell me it doesn’t start until he or she has taken it’s first independent breath as some Rabbi’s say. Tehillum 139:13-16 very clearly says otherwise.
Joy Heylen, Pakenham, Vic

Having said all that it would be interesting to know where Tony Abbott and his party stand in regards to Israel. I think Julie Bishop and I always thought Alexander Downer definitely had a good handle on it.  thanks

[balshan]

Yes it is an interesting debate.  I think you will find that most Jewish people are not against abortion because of the consequences that G-d places on the death of an unborn baby compared to those for one who is born.  That would be another interesting debate.  I find that Don Chipp had the right idea but the Democratics have been a great disappointment.  Still we do need a viable 3rd party but where will that come from.

My husband ran as an independent for local council one year, imagine his surprise when all the other independents got up and thanked the ALP for their support during the campaign.  It is hard to know who are the people who are supporting our independents and I believe that they should all state where their campaign help is coming from.

Sorry I am tied and have ended 2 sentences with the word from please forgive.